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Incidents, either bad or that could be improved in the city.

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chico98
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Post by chico98 » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:20 am

Quote:
WSU student says Mexican police tortured, extorted him
WSU student says his sunny vacation in Mexico turned into a nightmare after police kidnapping.


Jacob Jones

The Daily Evergreen

Published: 03/19/2007 00:00:00
A 21-year-old WSU student returned early from vacation in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, with a terrifying tale.

Senior economics major Andrew DeLorenzo said he was finishing up a night of drinking with six friends at a downtown Puerto Vallarta club on March 12 when he was seized by Mexican police officers. DeLorenzo said he was then bound, robbed and abused for more than 12 hours.

“It seemed so surreal,” he said.

DeLorenzo and six friends flew into the city on March 11 for spring break. He said they finished up their first night in the city outside a club on the downtown boardwalk at about 3 a.m. the next day. The group drank heavily throughout the night getting “trashed,” he said.

His friends were blackout drunk, he said. So as the least intoxicated one of the group, DeLorenzo said, he stepped away from his friends to ask a group of six or seven officers about taxi service back to their hotel.

DeLorenzo said uniformed officers told him he was under arrest, handcuffed him and put him in the back of a beat-up truck. He said he expected the officers to ask him for a bribe.

“I didn’t even think about fighting at that time,” he said.

Mexican officials told DeLorenzo’s family he was not seized by officers, but was found lying on the street with several injuries. Officials told the family he was taken to multiple hospitals for treatment and was only arrested when he became violent.

DeLorenzo said officers did take him to what appeared to be a doctor’s office, but his injuries were the result of how officers treated him. He said officers beat him with a weighted sock and struck him repeatedly. He said officers also demanded, in limited English or Spanish, the approximately $60 he had with him and personal information including his bank account PIN.

Meanwhile, his friends had gone back to their hotel and assumed DeLorenzo was busy with either trouble or a girl, he said. After two or three hours and a shift change of police officers, DeLorenzo tried to escape by hitting one of the officers. The officers then beat and restrained him, he said. “My legs are all scratched up from them dragging me,” he said.

DeLorenzo said individuals in the office then attempted to break his arm and threatened to cut off his head with a bonesaw. A person at the office also injected him with an intravenous solution, but missed the vein causing his arm to swell with fluid, he said.

He said he was then moved to a cell where a well-dressed man confronted him with a written confession for allegedly breaking a window and demanded his signature. At that point, DeLorenzo was able to get in contact with the local U.S. Consular Agency, he said.

Consular Agent Kelly Trainer called DeLorenzo’s family and told them he was under arrest for breaking a window. His mother, Lynn DeLorenzo, said the agent told her they could pay $1,000 for the window and get him out or they could let him sit as he waited for a court hearing.

“The easiest way for us was to just pay the $1,000,” Lynn DeLorenzo said.

The family wired him the money and he flew home early. Since then, Lynn DeLorenzo said they have tried to get the Mexican government to explain what happened. They filed a verbal complaint to the Mexican Consulate in Seattle. The consulate could not be reached for comment Sunday afternoon.

She said her son’s story sounds like a script to a bad movie, but he gets too upset for it to be fake.

“He would break down and cry telling me this story,” she said.

She said the family has taken Andrew DeLorenzo to several doctors to look at his injuries, including three X-rays of his swollen arm. The doctors determined the unknown IV fluid was the source of the swelling, but none of the Mexican doctors in the police reports state they administered any intravenous drugs.

The family said police statements regarding his custody have changed throughout the past week.

“It makes no sense at all,” Lynn DeLorenzo said. “I don’t think we’re ever going to prove this.” Unauthorized charges to Andrew DeLorenzo’s bank account have arisen in Mexico since he returned home, she said.

The family plans to file a complaint to the U.S. Department of State and hopes other college students on vacation do not face similar situations.

“You just really can’t be careful enough,” she said.



http://www.dailyevergreen.com/story/21717

I believe the boy story
just don´t get plastered
especially on the malecon
asking a police for cab
is a no no
true about police brutatly
a sin
be careful when you want to get bombed out

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Post by pvfunlover » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:31 am

There's a rather lengthy discourse on TA on this subject. It seems that no one has been able to corraborate this lad's story. It does seem a little fishy to me also.

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Post by pdxbuff » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:16 am

My take was the guy was so drunk that he remembers little and is just trying to make this a big issue. He should sober up and then go back to school and forget the whole incident.

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Post by palapa_gal » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:32 am

Here's a link to the video that aired on tv.

http://www.kirotv.com/video/11261249/index.html

I'm not saying this did or didn't happen but there is something missing from all of this and what I still don't understand is why would you need to ask anyone weither it be the police or whoever where to catch a taxi. There is a taxi or 2 on every corner in the downtown area.

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Post by lyrihn » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:11 pm

Well i have seen this post on several boards, and especially on the others the boys story is being completely dismissed.

we cannot know the facts from here, but in my view it would be a critical mistake to dismiss his claims wholesale.

Suppose he broke a window. Suppose he was obnxious. Is it then ok to inject him with some unknown caustic liquid? He certainly has scars.

I live north of PV as many of you know. And I had an experience with the police in this beautiful country about two months ago. Perhaps this is why I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

At 3 am my dogs went nuts left my bedroom where I sleep and chased a man off my property. He had broken in thru our gate on the beach and was in the house.

My mother was on oxygen in the next room. I got up and this man stopped running just outside the gate and simply stood there.

I called the police. They told me that they would be changing shifts in a couple hrs and so noone would be avaialble until dayight. I was shocked.

I got the courage or stupidity up to go ask the guy what he was doing. He was an english speaking non-mexican man.

He appeared to be crazy or on drugs. He said that he got i the gate but all the dogs didnt leave -- was his goal for them all to leave - did he have a goal who knows. he refused to leave.

I called the police again. and again and again. 4 hrs later he was still there and would not leave. I called a good friend (75 yo ex cop woman from the states - tough as nails) for advice. She said she would run to bucerias and find a police officer.

I waited another hour noone showed. My gardeners showed up and so i left them standing guard and i drove to bucerias to find the one dog that took off.

I returned in 15 minutes. The gardeners were yelling and upset. My friend the 75 yo women showed up alone and confronted the guy. He grabbed her by the throat, shook her and threatened to kill her. she broke away and left in her car again. (she later told me he wasnt squeezing all that hard)

I called the police again. The man was still there thrashing his arms wildly in the air. They said come in and make a report when i like and that they didnt have time to investigate until 11 am.

Finally my friend returned with a preventiva police car following her. They got out of the car, looked toward the beach at the guy, and said let us know if he goes back into the house and they got ready to leave!

At this point i said hey what is the problem. this guy breaks into my house and theatens to kill her and is standing right there on the beach and you wont do anything, This is insane.

I was then informed that I was about to be arrsted for raising my voice to a police officer - and i could see right then and there that I would be the guy getting beaten or worse.

I walked away.

Another car arrived. All the neighbors came out. With the public pressure. They cuffed the guy and left.

My friend went to the station to amend the final report. No arrests were made. There was no record of the incident. Noone knows where the man is. It was as tough the incident never happened. We called the counsulate since the offender was american and could have been ill or on drugs needing medical care who knows.

Kelly trainer was out of town. They promised to investigate. Honestly dont know of they did or not but they have not contacted us.

Locals now tell me that the police know the guy and he buys drugs from them. Dont know it thats true or not.

I love living here most of the time.... but.... there is no law as most of us know it. If you believe otherwize you are naive.

If a problem arrizes - maybe the police will help, maybe they will ignore it, maybe you will end up the victim like this boy claims to have been.

So like I said to start. Maybe the boy contributed to his situation a lot or a little. But i for one will not dismiss his claims as his own fault.

While there may be many good police here, there are too many corrupt "animals" for lack of a better word wearing police uniforms.

"be careful" is the best advice i can give when dealing with police here.

Jeff

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Post by chico98 » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:53 pm

was that sandy
who tried to help
tough old lady
she doesn´t stop

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Post by ellen » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:55 pm

I'm with you, Jeffrey. People just have to throw away everything they think about the police from the US or Canada and try to understand that it's a whole different ballgame in Mexico. Hats of to the new president if he can really do anything about it.

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Post by ellen » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:56 pm

palapa_gal wrote:Here's a link to the video that aired on tv.

http://www.kirotv.com/video/11261249/index.html

I'm not saying this did or didn't happen but there is something missing from all of this and what I still don't understand is why would you need to ask anyone weither it be the police or whoever where to catch a taxi. There is a taxi or 2 on every corner in the downtown area.
You're right - it doesn't make much sense that he would have to ask about taxis - but if he was more or less out of it from heavy drinking, that could account for it.

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Post by palapa_gal » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:15 pm

Just read on another board that a bunch of cops got fired yesterday. No word yet, if that has anything to do with this or not.

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Post by lyrihn » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:47 pm

yes of course it was sandy. She's ex-cop, ex federal marshal and ex prisoner guard -- no foolin'

I still cant believe her statement "he wasnt squeezing all that hard"

Amazing isnt it! God love her. shes got more energy in one hand than i have in my entire body and soul. :wink:

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Post by Plus4 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:34 pm

2 Amazing stories...

Something happened to Andrew... He was beaten and abused and he was in a Police cell and he was charged...
He also did contact Agent Kelly Trainer at the local U.S. Consular Agency...
I tend to believe the kid and I hope he and his family continue with the proper help to investigate what happened..
He either had self inflicted wounds...Was beaten up by? or he is telling the truth and was abused by the cops
Police brutality happens at times in Canada and the States... why so hard for some to not believe it happend in beloved PV.

Even ..if..he did break a window there is no way he deserved to be beaten..


and.....Sandy sounds like a gem... :)

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Post by katnsocal » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:54 am

I don’t think is has anything to do with people not believing it could happen in “beloved PV”

It has more to do with there are a lot of inconsistencies between the story in the video and the one in the newspaper 3 days later.

In the video he said he didn’t even think of fighting, it was almost like a surreal experience. In the newspaper article he punched a cop and tried to get away at shift change. In the video he said he was driven to an area out of town somewhere and held and in the Newspaper he was held hostage 12 hours in an office. One story says he was taken to 3 different clinics/hospitals and the other story said he was taken to what looked like a clinic.

He said he was the most sober one in the group but that they had been drinking since they arrived in town “getting trashed” He said his buddies were black out drunk so he went out looking for a taxi. But his buddies got a taxi and went back to their room. When they got there, according to his newspaper story, they realized he was not there and immediately thought he was either “in trouble” or “with a girl”. Is there a history that would make his buddies think he was “in trouble”?

I have been on the Malecon a lot in all the years I have been going to PV and there have been plenty of times that when I walked up one of the side streets off the Malecon going to the bus stop (before midnight) and the streets were dark and no one else was on the street. (Raises my security alert level a few notches/colors). There are bad guys in PV just like everywhere else in the world and they hang out on dark streets looking for vulnerable people and someone who is (trashed) is not very aware of what is going on around them (crime of convenience). Those guys will rob you and if they need to they will beat you up, most of the time they are on drugs or have drugs and thus would have access to IV drugs if they wanted to knock you out OR does he not want to tell his mom they offered them and he accepted (thus the injection site) and then they rolled him?

Lets face it, he is a kid/young adult and is he going to tell mommy the whole story if he messed up and she had to end up sending $1000.00 to bail him out of jail? My other question is why is his “mom” calling the police demanding answers, seems if Kelly Trainor was helping him and called his mom, she would be the one dealing with the police for answers, not his mom calling from Washington? That is part of Kelly’s job.

Whatever happened to him, and there is no doubt that he was beaten up, he and his buddies did not do their homework very well before they went to Mexico. How many ex-pats have we heard/read say "They can’t believe the things people do in PV on vacation that they never would do at home?" How many people say “Don’t go to Mexico, it is dangerous?” It is not like Mexico does not have a bad rap in a lot of peoples eyes so it would not take alot of homework to find out that a Mexican jail can be one of your worst nightmares.

I raised two sons and I know some of the stunts they and their friends pulled, and the stories they told to try to cover it up. I still get told :roll: "You don't want to know mom, don't ask". :lol:

Will the true story ever come out, will we ever find out if it was the cops or someone else that did it, unfortunately probably not!

So it has nothing to do with my thinking because it is PV it would not/could not happen, because I know it does.

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Thank You!

Post by Jennybean » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:41 pm

*applause for Kat*

Excellent advice, Kat.

Take it from me, someone who has been a victim of a random crime in PV, it DOES happen, and most of us who have been there more than once know it IS possible...no rose coloured glasses here; crimes of opportunity in a heavy tourist zone are more common than people realize, they just aren't always as confrontational. That said, PV is still safer than many areas of Mexico, and definitely safer than many places in my own city.

In this particular instance, there are aspects to the kid's story that are - in the words of my 2 former RCMP bosses - "hinky". They have told me numerous times there are two things that make a story less plausible and more suspicious - when not a single word of a story changes from telling to telling, or when it changes too much. The latter appears to be the case here, even taking into consideration what might be a liberal editorial hand by the media.

He might very well be telling the truth and I make no call one way or the other...problem is, in the condition he was admittedly in I'm doubtful that he even knows what the truth is at this point, and the story is getting embellished the more he talks and the more attention he gets.

If they want answers in ANY form, they should really be going through Kelly.

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Post by Youarethere » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:38 pm

broken record and I can understand a mother's concern for her son's conditon but this spring break stuff is really getting outta hand and it is possible that there are things this kid is leaving out. I'm not saying that bad things can't happen but some of these kids leave the country and think that they can act however they want, they trash everything until they are not welcome back. I have had some experiances with PV cops and Fedaralies and they treated me fine, with respect and furnished me with translators at times, even locked someone up (a local) that needed to be until an investigation was complete. Sure you have your bad cops, we have them here too in NY and NJ & I'm sure in Mexico too but if he was that drunk then how would he remember WHAT happened.

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Advice

Post by smitty » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:48 pm

Drunk and stupid = trouble no matter where you reside . Try watching the TV show , "Cops" , some time - most of the arrests are drunks or crackheads . One thing to get wasted at the hotel or resort but to go out in public like that is asking for trouble especially in a foreign land.

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My two cents worth

Post by michelle/tyler » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:26 pm

Well I did some investigating on this story,because like many, I want to believe him but there are to many holes in the story.
So what I found was his side like you all have, and then I found what seems to be a local campus newspaper for wsu but I am not
100% sure on that. Anyways they reported what they read in the daily evergreen but went on to do some investigating into his facebook
( I didnt know what this was so I looked it up and its a social network website designed for college and university students).Well It
isnt very nice what they found he had in there, He belongs to a fraternity,I can not say on this forum what is written it is very graphic
tatseless, mean spirited and so on I do have the link so if anyone wants it I will pass it on through pm. But be warned it isnt nice.It
gave me a whole new look on this guy.Now I am not saying this warrents the bruises but this happens everywhere U.S,CANADA
And sometimes ppl catch it on tape.Criminals in winnipeg told stories of the telephone book treatment in the elevator.

But the one thing that does bug me is how ppl go after the parents you now what, if it was my child I would do everything in my power
to find out what the heck happened and you know why because thats my child( whether there 10yrs old or 40) thats my blood and as a parent It is my job to
find out the truth.Now the kid probally doesnt remember alot so in this situation your not going to know the whole truth which as a
parent really sucks but to lash out at the parents is beyond me yes they have a bad a$$ son but they paid the fine got him home relatively
safe, thats there job if it seems he caused this and brought it on himself then make him pay the 1000 dollars back, teach him what it costs to be
irresponsible. Does it justify police brutality no.

Bottom line is none of us know this kid so we will never know the truth. Is pv safe, just as safe as anywhere else. The first time my children go away as adults
to a foriegn country I will be with them as my mom was with me and I will teach them how to have a great time even with drinking but doing it safely.

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Post by condor » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:40 am

Now I probably shouldn't post my opinion on this but I'm going to. I have been reading along on what may or may not have happened to this young man and I see my self thinking back to 2005 and the disappearance of a girl in Aruba. I also find myself thinking about the girl that recently posted on this forum asking about places to drink and have a good time in PV. She stated that they were a group of girls 17-18 who were going to PV by themselves. We had several members of this forum give them advise on where to go and where they could get in being "underaged".
Now in the Aruba case they said that "She was on a trip to Aruba with classmates and parent chaperones to celebrate her high school graduation." My thought is what in the He... are they taking a group of kids to Aruba for as a class graduation trip. What they couldn't find a place in the states to take them. I feel terrible for the parents but didn't the idea of their 18 year old daughter going to anouther country to party all night with her friends in the bars sound like something that could very easily go BAD!!
In the second case what parent would let their 17 year old daughter go to another counrty with different laws and different way of doing things by herself with friends and no adults. We took our 18 and 21 yearold with us to PV a few years ago and didn't let them go out to the bars alone. First at that age most kids are to trusting and never think about what can go bad. They think they are going to live forever and that they know what they are doing. But they really don't, most don't have experience drinking much less drinking to excess. When things go bad everyone always wants to find someone else to blame, as it is never their fault. I don't believe PV is any more dangerous than any place else, but I don't believe 17 and 18 year olds should be let to run free in PV or anywhere else for that matter. As for the 21 year old in this thread I think by 21 he should be old and mature enough to have better judgement. To have your name plastered all over the place looking for sympathy is just plain stupid. I would make a point of remembering his name and not hiring him just because I would always wonder what the next stupid thing was he is going to pull. I would also make a point of carefully checking any graduate of WSU more closely before hiring one. I guess I feel stupid rubs off. Just my humble opinion!

Condor :8-))

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Post by katnsocal » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:41 am

Michele,

Just to clearify, I was not going after his parents in my comments. I was merely pointing out the fact that his mom calling from Washington to the police demanding to know what happened is a waste of time. First of all she will be lucky if she can find anyone who speaks/understands english well enough to understand her. That is why we have the US consulate (Kelly Trainor) and the Canadian Consulate. They are the ones with at least a little bit of clout to get answers to what happened to one of their citizens in PV. His mother is just wasting her time and money and she needs to have the consulate working on it. Mothers yelling and screaming in defense of OUR children, as right as we feel we are for doing it, never gets alot of positive results.

In my post I said I raised two sons and I know some of the stunts they pulled, luckily I never had to bail them out of jail. I also know some of the stunts I pulled as a young adult, my problem was with my dad being a police officer I "ALWAYS" got caught. Someone always told my dad and then I got to face the "Do you have something you want to tell me question". To which I always replied "NO, not really". He would give me his "look" and I could never keep a straight face no matter what I was trying to convince him of. :lol:

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Post by michelle/tyler » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:14 am

Kat

Im sorry I should have said I wasnt referring to your comment like I said I did some investigating on the net I read all the other boards and articles and what ppl were saying and not just on this issue just in general any time there is an incident in a foreign country. I only belong to and post on this board so this is where I put my 2 cents in once in awhile. I agree with what you posted and I should have said that I dont take jabs at anyone here I was just making a comment in general about what I have read all over.


I had a friend whos dad was a police officer to so I hear you on that :D
Once again I apologize.

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Post by nevadabadgirl » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:27 am

I am the parent of an 18 year old boy. Would I allow him to go to Mexico by himself? Not on a bet. Legally, I couldn't stop him, though. Would I expect him to get beat up by police? No, but it can happen.

Las Vegas is a large Spring Break spot too...and our cops here seem to shoot first and ask questions later. Are there corrupt cops that might beat someone here? Yes Are they the minority? Definitely.

I grew up about 20 miles south of Lake Havasu (a big Spring Break spot in Arizona). Every year, there were reports of fights, beatings, etc. Did I go? You bet. I also spent spring break in Ft Lauderdale, Palm Springs and Mazatlan. Was there ever trouble? Yes.

I personally think the issue is not so much who did this to him, but what happens when 100s of very young people with no drinking experience (in public, that is :) ) get together and party....alot...They forget that they are considered adults, and therefore need to act like one. Leave the juvenile antics to the 40 year olds :lol:

I truly hope that whoever brutalized this young man pays for it. Just because you are young and stupid doesn't mean you should get beaten.

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