Purse Snatchers at Red Cabbage

Incidents, either bad or that could be improved in the city.

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katnsocal
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Post by katnsocal » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:32 pm

Yes there is purse sized pepper spray, it has been available for years in the US. I have one that fits on my keyring.

There is one that I have always wanted to find that not only sprays pepper spray but it strays some type of bright green colorant that you cannot wash off with soap and water. They might run away with the pepper spray but they would be pretty noticable for at least a few hours. I can hear the explainations now as to why their face is bright green. :D

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Post by clark1 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:59 pm

katnsocal wrote:Yes there is purse sized pepper spray, it has been available for years in the US. I have one that fits on my keyring.

There is one that I have always wanted to find that not only sprays pepper spray but it strays some type of bright green colorant that you cannot wash off with soap and water. They might run away with the pepper spray but they would be pretty noticable for at least a few hours. I can hear the explainations now as to why their face is bright green. :D

I have a question, have you found that pepper spray? I want that for my protection. Sad to know its illegal.

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Mean green pepper spray

Post by katnsocal » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:28 am

Clark1,

http://www.defensedevices.com/worhotpepspr.html

Note, there are restrictions as to where and how it can be shipped.

If you google pepper spray with dye, there are all kinds of options available through different suppliers.

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Post by thisisthis » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:01 am

hola! i actually am the "victim" of this red cabbage purse snatching which my sig other (at the time), now husband (as of last week) originally posted. i just finally joined the message board, which i've been reading for a few years. even though this is an old original post, i felt i should give my point of view of the incident and address a few of the comments. oneistwo and i have been going to vallarta for about 12 years now. we love it there. we hope to continue going forever, and may retire (at least part time) there. we also love the red cabbage, have been going there for years, and love sharing it with our friends/family members who come to vallarta. i have to say at the outset that it was "my bad" to carry that much $ with me. i've never, ever done that before. BUT, that very afternoon we were walking in el centro, on the malecon, stopped in a clothing store that had an ATM. oneistwo decided to withdraw some cash, and "suggested" maybe we should take out a bit more than usual for the next day or two since ATM fees seem to be increasing. i thought why not, i know how much i'll spend over at least the next week, . . . so i withdrew $400 and put it in my fanny pack that i always have during our daytime excursions. when we were going to the red cabbage that evening, we had family joining us, i wasn't sure they were aware it was cash only, i decided i should take some extra cash just in case, so i just transferred what was in my fanny pack to my little leather Coach clutch. AND i must add here that we did not have a safe in our room. los tules only started safes in the rooms last year. AND since i never had any incidents in the past, just never thought anything would happen to that cash. SO, mea culpa, mea culpa for having THAT much cash with me. it was a first and will definitely be a last.

moving along from the amount of cash in my clutch, i'd like to address those commenters who thought we owed an apology to the red cabbage. i fully understand those who stated that it was not their fault. but i also want to say that we were no more than 20 feet away from their front door, AND these "thugs" were NOT drug addicts, bums, or whatever else you might want to call them. they were mexican teenagers, and "well dressed" teenagers (i.e., clean cut, nicely dressed teenagers, just like you might find in your US middle class suburbs). that led me to believe that they lived in the neighborhood, that they decided to engage in this activity for "fun," and that i was not their first "victim." when i took off running after them cursing them to high heaven (hey, i was po'd), i passed more than a few neighborhood people who just acted like i was invisible and that they saw/heard nothing. these boys disappeared finally into some shrubs behind some houses, and of course i wasn't going there. probably wasn't very bright to even take off after them at all. but this was the first time anything like this happened to me in PV or the US and it was kind of surreal. SO, i have to say that the red cabbage staff (they always have the young man or someone standing right outside their door to help any patrons get a cab, etc.) witnessed this. should they have called the police or done something about it? i'm not saying they should, BUT i will say (even after all this time and reliving this over and over) that they had to know these kids were doing this. i will not say that maybe they should tell their patrons not to walk down the hill to el centro because that probably wouldn't be a good thing for a PV business to tell people (don't walk because you might get mugged). bottom line: i don't think oneistwo or i owe an apology to the red cabbage. you may disagree.

also, some commenters talked about pepper spray etc. in their purse/pocket, whatever. i must emphasize that this happened in a nano-second. i began walking with a little margarita buzz after a great red cabbage dinner, looking forward to walking to the river cafe where willie and lobo (our favorites) were that night, and i felt someone just pull my clutch out from under my arm. this kid was 15 feet away from me before i even realized that my purse was gone. nobody would have time to use pepper spray or anything else in such a situation? besides, wasn't the pepper spray IN the purse they just snatched? duh!

bottom line: 1. we LOVE PV, and we're heading back down next week for our annual two weeks (hopefully to be increased over the next few/several years). 2. i won't be (didn't last year) carrying more cash than i need to dinner (honestly, i never have in the past AND i usually keep my cash in my pocket and just my girl stuff in my fanny pack or clutch or whatever). 3. love the red cabbage, but since we've been there so many times already and no new friends/family are joining us this year, i think we'll pass. it really does kind of give me a sick feeling in my gut when i relive that. 4. don't think we owe an apology to red cabbage for reasons stated above. 5. would hope that others heed the warning -- be aware at all times. even in our beloved PV. this experience was a reality check for me, and i will be extra vigilant from now on. 6. love the posts about stashing the cash in the bra thing, etc. glad some folks can have a sense of humor about such things. 7. hope to add a few intelligent, and maybe even interesting, posts in the future. 8. just had to give my point of view.

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Post by katnsocal » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:37 am

Hola, thisisthis, welcome to actually posting here and congratulations on your recent marriage. I totally understand your entire story....it just brings about one of those what was I thinking/doing moments. I too think Red Cabbage should have assisted you in some way, at least after the fact, by calling the police, etc. That area around the Red Cabbage can be dark and confusing after dark. I too decided I was going to walk to Olas Altas from there one night, in the rain...well actually it had stopped when I started out. I ended up God only knows where. What I found funny was when I stopped in a small internet cafe and asked in spanish how to get to Olas Altas/Los Muertos Pier and they looked at me like I had 3 heads sticking out of my shoulders and had to ask each other how to get there. I took alot of twists and turns and "I" finally found my way out of the maze. The entire time I was thinking...stupid move, you have your camera, you have more money than you need to have right now and no one knows who or where the heck you are.

Luckily nothing happened and quite a few people said hello to me in the neighborhood, so while it was an uncomfortable situation, I never felt I was in any real danger. I can say unlike the "tourist" areas, I never saw one police car until I got back into the tourist area.

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Post by thisisthis » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:58 am

katnsocal: thanks for your comments. i'm hoping that most of us are on the same page here -- be vigilant; dont' take anything for granted; don't beat yourself up about something that was totally out of your control. i think that's about it.

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Post by augie » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:20 am

oneistwo, many fond memories of Yardley, please tell these fine people of the PV forum how many times your purse was stolen in PA, why in the hell would anyone want to travel to a place where its a real possibility of being assaulted and robbed by police, beat up at a timeshare or have your purse stolen? I believe you were to easy on the Red Cabbage and Mexico, you should have included a few expletives. Go to Florida next time leave the money in the states. Its obvious the Mexicans are to dumb to realize where their bread is buttered.

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Post by oneistwo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:01 pm

Augie: We understand what you're saying because it's very close to what we were saying to each other for the 48 hours after the incident. We spewed those expletives and said all kinds of horrible things about the Mexican people, and that we'd never come back to PV again, etc. To each other. When the time came to write about it on the board, I used language sufficient to communicate that we were indeed angry and hurt, but at least as important, however clumsily I expressed it, a genuine warning, one that could be useful to the people on the board. And as you can see we still felt a need to cap it off two years later. It can take that long to be more objective about it, to allow the sense of violation to wear off. We only have a small sense of the hurt that woman whose purse was taken more violently must be feeling. (Speaking of purses, it was thisisthis's that was taken, not mine. No biggie; we are a unit.)

While I've never been street-mugged, I have been a theft victim in places other than PV, in New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York and yes even here in Yardley. The dollar value of these thefts is far more than we lost that night in PV. I've even lost 50-year-old family photos when my briefcase was stolen from my car in New York (the laptop, the watch, the tapes and other gear were just stuff, the price of a lesson learned). I think if you live or stay anywhere long enough, you'll have something filched or broken into.

I also understand how dealing with people can become a "thing." I've had some go-arounds with Amazon and Verizon that were monumental. A footnote to those is when I tried to explain them to people around me, they looked at me kinda puzzled, like there was something maybe just a little bit wrong with [i]me.[/i].

My career has been mostly in journalism, with a few years thrown in as a government spokesman. Anger is a major player in the public arena, and it took a couple decades of observing and even receiving it to realize that it's impossible to talk people out of their anger by frontal counterattack. At some point the parties have to channel it to a resolution of some kind, or let it go and move on to the next battle. This has to be especially difficult for people who are having unresoved issues in a foreign country, the ones you and others have described. I know I would "go to war" if those things happened to me. But all wars end, whether the cause is resolved or not.

You're not going to be able to talk us out of returning to PV, any more than you could talk me out of occasional visits to my first love, New Hampshire, or living in Yardley.

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Post by karldion » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:53 am

katnsocal wrote:Yes there is purse sized pepper spray, it has been available for years in the US. I have one that fits on my keyring.

There is one that I have always wanted to find that not only sprays pepper spray but it strays some type of bright green colorant that you cannot wash off with soap and water. They might run away with the pepper spray but they would be pretty noticable for at least a few hours. I can hear the explainations now as to why their face is bright green. :D
Really? a purse sized pepper spray!., Do you have idea where I can buy one?

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Post by katnsocal » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:14 pm

If you do a google search for purse sized pepper spray you will find tons of different types, key chain, lipstick, etc. I buy mine at some local drug stores or sporting good stores. I can't speak of where to find it for all of the US.

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Post by iyamscifi2 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:05 am

actually---on one of the other boards--locals reported that in the neighboorhood of the red cabbage and los arbolitos---teenage kids have been pulling petty robberies such as this lately.

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Post by katnsocal » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:59 am

This is an old topic that has been brought back to life from several years ago. This same restaurant and local happenings were recently discussed on the Restaurant forum.

viewtopic.php?t=18258

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Sorry This Happened To You, However.......

Post by John Shaft » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:53 am

I am an ex Chicago Policemen and spent most of my time undercover in Chicago's underworld. The world is in depression now, henceforth, petty crime in on the rise. Here is professional advice. Never do what tourist's do in a foreign country. I only carry shopping bags the one day I shop, and catch a taxi from my last stop. Blend in with the native population by dressing like them. I always wear raggedy jeans and a T shirt. I speak spanish and portuguese so people really are not sure where I am from. I look like a tall Indian. When walking by myself in PV or Rio de Janeiro I put a scowl on my face like a gangster. The locals are a little fearful of me than I am of them especially late at night. Truely there is no need for a women to carry a purse in PV. Remember, you are not in the suburbs of USA. My girlfriend lives in Puerto Vallarta and catches the bus home at 11:30PM. She never carries a purse. Unfortunately, Mexico is a different species of country. If you really want a criminal pursued, pay a Mexican policeman $20.00USD. He may very well find him and then, allow you to administer some physical punishment, huh?
Having very good street skills should keep you pretty safe. This takes some ability for you can only learn all this in the street being a chulo (street guy)
Never get your picture in the Mexican newpapers. Just seing your foto in the papers may lead these clowns to think you are worth kidnapping. Do not project a tourist air about yourself. If you are not sure where you are going pretend like you do. No new gym shoes, no jewelry. Stay safe.

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Slow Your Roll Before You Loose Your Soul

Post by John Shaft » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:32 pm

augie wrote:oneistwo, many fond memories of Yardley, please tell these fine people of the PV forum how many times your purse was stolen in PA, why in the hell would anyone want to travel to a place where its a real possibility of being assaulted and robbed by police, beat up at a timeshare or have your purse stolen? I believe you were to easy on the Red Cabbage and Mexico, you should have included a few expletives. Go to Florida next time leave the money in the states. Its obvious the Mexicans are to dumb to realize where their bread is buttered.
Your ancestors worst fears will soon be realized here in the USA dude. Darker skinned people (dumb Mexicans as you say) will be a majority in the USA. Your slaver ancestors always feared African descendants and Native Americans (Mexicans) would out number these foreigners that tried unsuccessfully to use ethnic cleaning and genocide to rid the USA of darker skinned people. Well, these plans did not work out. Latinos will be a majority of the US population. Some cities like Chicago will be majority latino by 2016.
Mexicans do not have to like you. Your ancestors stole half their country after American colonists were arrested and executed at the Alamo for trying to overthrow the Mexican government. U.S. Marines invaded Mexico and slaughtered children at the military academy.
Your slaver ancestors feared Indians and blacks would pay you back for slavery and ethnic cleaning if ever we were a majority. If you go to Mexico try to behave yourself. You are the reason Americans are hated around the world dude. In Vietnam, the war I fought in, and World War II, Mexican- Americans were the highest decorated ethnic group. The pitiful laws this country trys to pass to disenfranchise Mexicans is an international disgrace as was American Slavery. Be careful what you say. You want to sit in your house, drink beer, and sing old Nazi songs be my guest. My advice to you slick homie, is to slow your roll before you loose you soul.

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Post by katnsocal » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:38 am

Blend in with the native population by dressing like them. I always wear raggedy jeans and a T shirt.
Seriously????? that is pretty funny. The "native population" "Vallartanese I hang out with don't dress that way. They even wear new shoes. :)

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Post by charlieb » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:41 am

What!? They wear shoes??

Chuck... 8)

sorry, couldn't help it. my bad!

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Post by ronald » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:08 am

If you really want a criminal pursued, pay a Mexican policeman $20.00USD. He may very well find him and then, allow you to administer some physical punishment
There's a prime example of great human behaviour! Must come from all those years of being on one of the worst police forces in the U.S..

You'd probably take their shoes too!

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Post by John Shaft » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:15 am

ronald wrote:
If you really want a criminal pursued, pay a Mexican policeman $20.00USD. He may very well find him and then, allow you to administer some physical punishment
There's a prime example of great human behaviour! Must come from all those years of being on one of the worst police forces in the U.S..

You'd probably take their shoes too!
Ah! I wear a size 15 shoe Ron. I would not let your wife know that (smile) Well, yeah Ronald I used to think that there being Canadians on the planet we had some hope. But I see you have let us Americans influence the fine Canadian people to become like us knuckle dragging Americans. Shame on you!
I see you have a very low opinion of American police. Then, when you are in US call the Local Association Of Bowling Trophy Salesmen, or the neighborhood skate board club when you need help.
Ya know, the more I listen to the dribble on this forum - I really am making my cameo appearance in this forum after making my stomping grounds in PV for 30 years - I feel like I am listening to the bar lizards in PV.
A little advice. Every country on the earth is not culturally like english speaking countries. You have a hard time digesting this. If Chinese Police got there hands on American Drug companies the drug companies would suffer the death penalty.
The Mexican Criminal Justice System is different than English speaking countries. In rural ares in Mexico, you rape and kill a kid, the Mexican Police might just stand around and smoke Cuban cigars while neighbors string the culprit up. Ah! Within a hundred years ago, in Louisiana, mobs of Americans stormed a jail and drug several ITALIANS OUT OF THEIR CELLS AND LYNCHED THEM. AMERICA ALMOST WENT TO WAR WITH Italy. America has and can be a barbaric and uncivilzed place. Americans have taught other countries barbarity. Summary punishment (Butt whipping)by Mexican police has its benefit, although in my eyes its illegal.
Youths in PV decided the malecon would be a nice place to practice their bottle throwning one Saturday. Mexican police arrived on the scene, Ha! It was just a beat down with the telescope pipes. No, arrests, no ambulances, no police reports. Mexican police just shut them down. The bottle throwing gangbanger just sat around and licked their wounds. But you knbow something.......the bottle throwing stopped.

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Actually...

Post by webmaster » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:13 pm

Well, having lived 13 years in Mexico, I can say things are rosy tinged until you have issues that require the law enforcement... The law, as in many places, is for those that have money and have contacts, and in second term, for those that are right.

It's tough, it sounds ugly, it normally isn't an issue and you can for the most live a great and fine life, unless you are of the unlucky ones. That's why I think things like rapes and such, are better served by a lynch mob, than the local justice, some localities may be better than others, but I've come to understand why things like that happen.

My experiences are based on the city I live in, Guadalajara, that in the end is in the same state as Vallarta and I guess, has an even better level or law and order than Vallarta. We've for example, tried to get some people to pay us, they left us with a considerable debt, and even with a pagaré, signed by them, we've wasted 25% of the debt they have trying to have them pay, through the legal pathway, and nothing happens. They hide in their house, they move their cars, they squirm and lie, and we continue to pay the debt they left us. The same story has more ramifications, and the end result is the same, you pay lawyers and the criminals just lie their way through... I've never had experiences like these in other countries, so I can't compare, but I surely don't think the legal system is helping and caring for those that are victims of fraud.

So anyway, at times, in moments of moral weakness, strange thoughts go through my mind, but of course, those are the lesser moments and rationality and a cool mind pervade.

As for crime in Vallarta, I think it's mostly the same as any place else, I've lived in GDL a long time, zero issues, and I dress casually, as do most the rest, decent shoes, brand tennis shoes, shirts, t-shirts, Levi's jeans, drive an old -on purpose- dusty (well kept and with good tires) car and life is fine when it comes to criminality.

So, anyway I wouldn't be so judgmental when it comes to John's comments, they are quite down-to-earth in my opinion.

Greetings

M.

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Last word, please

Post by oneistwo » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:32 am

Please let this one go and move on, as we have. We've learned our lesson about clutch purses and the back streets at night. If there are social-historical issues to be extracted from our experience, please put them in a new thread. There are almost certainly such debates of more general interest and importance beyond where to walk and what to carry. (Moderator: por favor).

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